How can your church be known for something in your community?

with Mark MacDonald
Mark MacDonald

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Church Marketing Ideas Podcast Transcript

Adam: Mark McDonald. Thank you so much for hanging out on the podcast with me.

Mark MacDonald: I mean to be able to talk to another Canadian, I mean that’s, that’s what it, if we could only just have some Tim Horton coffee or, or I know Canadian maple doughnut,

Adam: It would be delicious. Some people just don’t know and some of the listeners have no idea what we’re talking about. And that’s all right with me. I’m okay with that by the way. Office goals behind you. You have a beautiful setup and quite frankly, you could be in a tool shed, but you’re in Florida and that would be an office goal for me. Tell me a little bit about what’s going on in Florida for you.

Mark MacDonald: Well, Florida is going very well. I’m not sure when you’re going to be broadcasting this, but it’s not snowing here and that makes this Canadian very happy.

Mark MacDonald: But things are going really well. I’m a, I’m the executive director for the center for church communications. If you know a church marketing sucks or courageous storytellers or even our creative missions you, you would probably be recognized some of our brands, a center for church communications. I mean, we work with almost 10,000 churches all across the country. And I just can’t believe I get to do what I get to do. And then on the side I also do a little bit of consulting and speaking and working with churches and there’s some other things on the horizon, which maybe by the time this gets broadcast, if you just Google me, you might find more than you ever intended. But it’ll also you know, it’ll tell you a little bit about what I’m going to be doing.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah. And we had Matt Ehresman man on this show and so his podcast or his episode will either have already happened or becoming up, I’m not sure.

Mark MacDonald: We’re batch recording all of these in November. They’re going to be coming out between January and June a little bit behind the curtains, but we’ll make sure we link to that in the show notes. Mark, I’m so excited to have you on because from the very first time we met and you picked a restaurant that we would go to breakfast at a using a Yelp review and at the end of our breakfast, an ambulance pulled up and removed somebody from the kitchen. I just have felt this Canadian brother connection with you ever since that moment.

Mark MacDonald: You can’t write something. That initial meeting, I mean we had such a great conversation and we were just like long lost friends and then, and then that medical tragedy happened.

Mark MacDonald: And we don’t know any details. It was just interesting that we had finished our food at that point in time when the ambulance pulled up and took somebody out of the kitchen.

Mark MacDonald: If our food hadn’t arrived yet, I’m not sure what the next course of action would have been, but you know it’s Mark picked that restaurant with Yelp. I get to pick the next one. That’s just the rules. Absolutely. So I’m excited at that point in time, you hadn’t released, be known for something yet. It was like coming out a few months later. Now you’ve released, be known for something and your book and I’m excited to chat with you about this. So give us a high-level overview. Where did it be known for something? The idea come from?

Mark MacDonald: You know, it’s so crazy. You know, I was a senior creative director for one of Eastern Canada’s largest ad agencies. The entire time that I worked there, I was more in design. I have a graphic design degree. The more I climbed the ladder there to become senior creative director, the more I realized, okay, well maybe design isn’t all that important. I know sacrilege, but it’s, it’s like more about the content and if you’re, you know, you might have a nice looking message, but if the message doesn’t resonate, then people aren’t going to be all that interested in it. And what I realized was that, Oh my goodness, there is just so much noise going on in the world today. And every time you turn around, they’re just more and more content. I’m amazed at how much is pushed towards us. And, you know, thanks to smartphones and, and being online all the time.

Be known for something bookMark MacDonald: We’re just, we’re just getting so much bombarded with messaging over and over again. And that noise that, that we experience every person you meet, every person listening to this we learn, we have the skill set to be able to tune things out. My wife would also talk about this a little bit differently, but ultimately we all know how to tune out the things that we don’t find relevant. And, and the problem is that the church today, we keep thinking, well, why isn’t the community listening to us? And, and because of all this noise, the church at one of the last things that they want to listen to. And the scary thing is, is that as communications people, we have, we have community and we have a congregation. I mean, we always grumble and complain about our community. You know, the community just want to listen to the church.

Mark MacDonald: Our congregations don’t wanna listen to us anymore. In fact, they’ve all gotten so much noise from this communication field being pushed at them that they’ve all decided what’s relevant to them and what’s not relevant to them. So, you know, my team and I, we sat down and we started to kind of walk through all of this and we realized, okay, well we choose what we want to listen based upon what we know about something and what if we could become known for something so that people would find us relevant. And what we realized was, okay, well that would help us focus content and it would also help us focus what, what you know becomes our skillset. And if our church would actually become known for that one thing that the community would listen to, they would start listening to us. Our congregation would be able to pass that message on a whole lot easier. So as we started talking about it, I realized, Oh my goodness, this book just needs to be written in, in the way that, okay, let’s walkthrough. How do we determine what we should be known for so that we are relevant and needed in our communities?

Mark MacDonald: Yeah. And I’m all about building trust and consistency builds trust. And if nobody realizes whoever’s just listening, you don’t realize that I actually have that too tattooed across my forehead. The people watching on YouTube know that I do. And, but just to, that’s a joke. But consistency builds trust. So when we’re consistent about the message that we’re saying over and over and over and over, then we get to be known for that in the community. And if somebody wants dance lessons, that’s probably not what they’re going to go to your church for. But if they need help with their family life and you’re known for that, for instance, then they’ll start to trust that you’re the go-to authority on that. I find that churches want to be all things to all people. So I know it’s a surprise and a revelation. I’m happy to share with you, Mark, but I would love it if you could talk a little bit about why that is not the solution.

Mark MacDonald: Oh my goodness, eh, the big issue today is that if you try to reach everybody, you have to have a ton of communication materials that you’re going to be pushing. Okay. You probably have team limitations. Some of you are the team. So if, if you think you’re juggling a lot now, the more you, the more audiences you bring into the mix, the more you have to juggle and then you can’t really become an expert about everything because you would have to become an expert about everything. So I guess that we just have to, we have to make sure that we don’t become a messaging source for everyone. We have to figure out what is one thread that unites all of our audiences, our community, in our congregation so that if you start talking about it, they’ll go, whoo. Okay. What was that? It’s kind of like, if I’m, you know, thank God I don’t have any back pain.

Mark MacDonald: I know that a lot of people struggle with it, but the moment that I say back pain it immediately unites a diverse audience. I mean there’s old people. There’s strangely enough, some younger people that have some you know, sports injuries and things and, and you have this diversity. And speaking of diversity, I mean, it doesn’t matter whether you’re white, Asian, African American, you know, whatever color you are, if you have back pain, it unites that group. It’s kind like no one sits around in an AA meeting. And so as we’ll hook them, how come you’re here, you’re Asian. Well, no, I’m not here because of my race. I’m here because of my needs. And that’s where we need as a church. We need to figure out what unites us. And, and if you have a problem with diversity or if you have a problem with attracting various groups to your church, you’re probably not pushing a need that would unite all of those things. And, and, and, and it also calms everything down. That noise that I talk about. It just makes it easier. Like, if you can, Mmm. If you can say less so that people listen more. That’s, that’s where you become the King of communications in your church.

Mark MacDonald: So talk to me a little bit about the perception that

Mark MacDonald: Somebody might be hearing you say this and hearing you say, we’re only going to reach this type of person for Jesus. We’re not going to pay any attention to them. And I think what that ignores is the group of churches in your city who all could be known for something and together are able to reach, you know, all different people. And so talk to me a little bit about the church that thinks that being focused on something is actually hurting their opportunity to reach everyone

Mark MacDonald: Wow. I guess I can pretty much sum it up that if you try to reach everyone, you’ll end up reaching nobody. If you end up really focusing on one group, you can pretty much saturate the dependence of that group on you. So it was interesting. I just, I, I drove here and as I was in the car, I heard the radio commercial for a law firm. And, and when you think about law firms, like how many commercials you hear and, and like they just become, [noise]

Mark MacDonald: I mean like there’s just, it’s just a drone of, yeah, we offer this or we chase this ambulance or you know, we’ll get you more money or whatever. Well, this firm that was advertising they were talking about the fact of how their law firm is based upon great service. And I thought, Whoa, cause everyone says that, right? Then they said, but we also know, and there’s a military base around us and they say, we know that some people have committed their life to service and we want to tip our hat to them. They say thank you for your service. And we also understand that in the military it’s incredible stress on your marriages. So if you’re going through a divorce, we specialize in helping you and we use great service because we want to thank you for your service.

Mark MacDonald: And I thought, Oh, there it is. That’s like all of a sudden they broke through. And especially as soon as they said the military, every person who is listening in that was ever attached to the military would instantly listen in. And so it’s just a matter of figuring out, okay, so what is a small group that would be interested in something? And there are enough people in that group if you attract them that they’ll listen to you and you can engage a fairly large audience. But at the end, like at the end of the commercial, I thought like, I mean, I’m not in the military, but if I ever need a law firm, man, they seem like they really got it. And so other people, like you can target a group and you could saturate that group with a message and you can attract that group.

Mark MacDonald: It doesn’t mean that you will never reach anybody outside. Also, if you go with a felt need whether that’s, you know, something that, you know, they’re waking up and they’re really struggling with. So maybe it’s I was working with a church recently and they said that where, where this church is, they have a major highway and everyone on the other side of the highway is very wealthy on their side of the highway there middle-class and every person around their church only wants to get to a point where they can move across the highway. Isn’t that crazy? I mean they still, they summed up this large group of people. So what they decided to do was it’s like, what if you could achieve more and that I don’t want to get into the prosperity gospel or anything like that. Cause it was not that at all. However, if you come up with a felt need in a group of people it broadens it a whole lot more than saying, you know, we’re going to be looking at 18 to 24-year-olds who have two kids that like, don’t do anything like that. You need to have a broad enough group. But you know what, you’ll probably focus on one group of people, but they’ll always be outliers that will go, Ooh, I like that too. And [inaudible] well, they’ll, they’ll end up coming to your church anyway.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah. And in a, in a practical sense, we’re not talking about being so narrow that we just are repeating our slogan over and over. You know, in the sense of the church that you talked about, you could be offering business breakfast is you could be offering entrepreneur classes. You could be talking about the biblical basis for finances. You could be offering women in business luncheons and focused around though, what does it take to get me from a to B? Right. so talk to me a little bit about how you choose what the something is you want to be known for. So we talked about not being so narrow, but we also talked about not being so broad. Where’s the middle ground? How do we choose that something? How can we figure that out? Yes.

Mark MacDonald: Discover your thread. That’s what we continually talk about. And if not, you’ll have too many messages and people will stop listening to you to discover your thread. What you have to realize. It can not start with the leadership of the church to determine what that thread is. It has to start with the audience. Effective communication rises and falls on how well you know your audience. You have to do everything in your power to know your audience, make sure that there’s a large enough group of those people and what are their felt needs. Not their spiritual needs, but the things that they’re waking up in the morning and saying, man, I just, I wished that I could do this, which is a goal or I wish, I, I wish I could fix this, which is a need. And if you can become a solution to those needs or a path to their goals and really focus in on that thread. You know, some people call it a tagline, some people call it a positioning statement. But if you can, if you can really come up with something that’s short, sweet, and really speaks to a specific audience, you will break through and you can actually save us so that they’ll listen more.

Mark MacDonald: So give me some hands-on practical examples that you’ve seen. I know you’ve worked with hundreds, likely thousands of churches to help them discover their thread and give me some practical examples of what some of those actual threads have been.

Mark MacDonald: Sure. It’s that whole thing of, okay, I’ve done so many that can’t think of any, but I guess, well, in the book we, we kinda deal with several of them. And there’s one yeah. Okay. So in the, in the Houston area, Texas there was a church that when we got in and we started talking to people, we realized in their community, all their community was there to work in the oil industry. Every one of them had crazy dreams of you know, Beverly hillbillies. It’s like, you know, I’ll drill in my backyard and all of a sudden this spigot of oil will come up. And, and what we realized was that every person wanted a big goal. And the problem was that that it wasn’t happening as quickly or a lot of people realize with the downturn that that third, it was just very tough and a lot of people were struggling.

Mark MacDonald: And when we sat down, you know, one of the things that we would recommend is, first of all, a demographic study of your area that’ll reveal a ton of information. There’s so much big data out there right now that that is fairly easy for a church to get. Like, if your church is part of a denomination, contacts your denominational office, and they’ll probably have a way to give you demographic information, then I would recommend once you hone in on a specific type of person, start talking to those people, bring them in for focus groups. When we started talking to these people and you know, I dunno if like 10 or 12 people in a room you really want to make sure that if they know you’re from a church that want to talk all spiritual, that I want to make sure that, you know, that take up the right answer.

Mark MacDonald: And they quote scripture and then they forget where the scriptures from. And, but the thing is, is that like let them off the hook and it’s like, no, no, no. We want to know about you and your life. And what we heard was there was a crazy amount of frustration of, okay, so I’ve dedicated my life to doing an awful lot of things so that one day we could be successful. And, and what we heard over and over again as soon as there is that they talk about their goal and then their failure and the goal, they, they constantly went back to there’s gotta be more. And, and when we started talking to the pastor and the leadership of the church, he made it really clear that he fully gets that. Oftentimes pastors struggle because it’s like, well if I build it, they will come.

Mark MacDonald: Right? And we can’t be grasping onto our goals to the point where our whole lives revolve around it. Like there is more to light. And as we were talking about that, I was like, Oh my goodness, just the idea of more than a life and that kind of that’s red of there is more to life. The cool thing about a good thread is that it instantly communicates the type of person that your audience is. But also as you look at all your ministries in your church, I mean, should we even talk about the number of silos in a church and the way that everyone thinks they’re bigger and better than the other. And there’s more hope and opportunity here than there is a fear. And so you need to have this umbrella thread that all of the departments, the ministries in your church, they unite under that they communicate it possibly differently. Or they can even interpret it just in a, in a way more to life to a child is different than more to life as a senior citizen. So that’s the unifying factor that oftentimes happens with the, with a good threat. It’s it kinda levels the playing field and allows each of the pastoral staff to try to figure out, okay, so how can we work this thread into our mix?

Mark MacDonald: So when we’ve come up with the thread and we’ve done it based on the people that we’re trying to reach, the people in our community and we’ve found a thread that resonates and it checks all the boxes, it passes the litmus tests. How do we communicate that thread virtually in an ongoing way without becoming redundant? Like how does it not become

Mark MacDonald: Thing that people don’t want to hear anymore? And you know, when I lived in Florida, we had a guy who owned some car dealerships and he was on the radio all the time and everybody knew that you know, that guy’s slogan. And of course, it’s escaping my mind at the moment. But you probably know who I’m talking about.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah.

Mark MacDonald: [Inaudible] How do you just continue to talk about the thread without it becoming so redundant and repetitive? So give me some practical ideas. Let’s start in the context of social media. How can you talk about your thread over and over so your community gets it without being redundant?

Mark MacDonald: Yes. So what is the tattoo on your forehead?

Mark MacDonald: Consistency builds trust. It’s right here,

Mark MacDonald: Lindsay. So why, why is the word consistency? Acceptable? A redundancy feels awful and, and the why is redundancy today is saying it exactly the same way over and over and over again. And consistency is no setups and fences to say, you know what, as part of this thread, here are multiple words that we can use in this, this playground that we’re playing in so that we keep coming back to the same thing. So over, over time, consistency feels right and, and people will trust it. And if you just keep saying it over and over again, it becomes very boring. So what you need to do is you need to figure out, so what’s the playground? You know, what’s the sandbox that we’re all in? If we’re, if we’re going to adopt this thread and if we adopt the thread and we’re in this sandbox, there are a plethora, I’ve never used that word out loud before.

Mark MacDonald: Plethora of different things that we can just play with. You know, more to life. Think about how broad that is. And, and what we strongly urge the leadership of the church is to, okay, so we’re not telling you to make sure that the thread is in every sermon or every sermon series, but every sermon and every sermon series needs to at least have some connection to the ultimate threat, right? And it’s, it’s similar to the way, you know, scripture is set up with the six books in the Bible and the blood of Jesus Christ is drizzled from Genesis all the way through to revelation. And that Scarlet thread unites every passage of scripture, every verse, every story, every parable. And that’s the joy is that as you’re reading through scripture, you can kind of stop and say, okay, so how does this attach itself to that Scarlet thread, which is the saving you know, the saving blood of Jesus Christ.

Mark MacDonald: So I mean, no one ever says, wow, the Bible, it’s just, well, some people do say it’s boring, but not for those reasons. But the redundancy obviously is done in such a way that it really creates, you know, an amazing portrait of the thread rather than one boring thing after the other.

Mark MacDonald: Yeah. And I’m thinking, you know, just offhand the story of Abraham and Isaac and the story of Esther and then the story, like some of the parallels that parables, wow. Some of the parables that Jesus told, you know, you can see God’s grace as a thread, even though there are completely different contexts. And I’m wondering if you can dig in a little bit about, we know a lot about, and it’s, it’s becoming a common topic in marketing, how we use stories to kind of Mark it or tell about our thread.

Mark MacDonald: So tell me a little bit about using that common thread, but using real-life stories from people in your community and how we can leverage those two together.

Mark MacDonald: Oh my goodness. As soon as you have your thread and you know, this is what our church is going to be all about and we have to, we have to establish that that playground that we’re in or the sandbox, always encourage people to put on, put on your thread glasses at that point. So it’s kinda like the, you know, you, you put on, you know, red-colored glasses and everything just to, everything’s red. Oh my goodness. Or like, so I just bought a car and, and so it’s a Toyota and I’m not going to in any way. So the car, as I drive around in the car, I, when I first saw it, I thought, Oh my goodness, I’m going to be the only one with this car.

Mark MacDonald: And everywhere I turn, I seem, it’s like, Oh, there was a, I didn’t realize, Oh my goodness, there’s another room. I am not the only person with a Toyota. Right? But we as a, as a communications person, we need to put on our thread glasses. And as soon as you know that sandbox that you’re playing in, you’re going to find out that there are stories like everywhere, every time you turn around what you want to do and that, and I just, I worked for the church this morning that you know, they have their thread now. And then I went to their website and I couldn’t find their thread anywhere. And he said, yeah, but how do I force it through everything? And I said you don’t even have to force it through. Let’s just call up any page. So I called up a page and I said, so how do you think you can take that content and make it relevant to your thread?

Mark MacDonald: And I quickly, he just went, Oh well we could. And then he added in in the thread and, and that’s where like there’s pictures that you need to show the thread. So if your thread is delivered to somebody and it’s a solution or, or a path to a goal, it’s going to elicit an emotion. So your pictures need to have that same emotion so that people if it’s an aha moment I guess on Monday or Tuesday, I work with another client and, and their thread is a huge solution for somebody. And I said, so would it be Oh my goodness, I can’t believe you just gave that to me? Or is it, Oh my relief. And if we can show that emotion and even when, when people come to your church, if they can feel that emotion, then what you’re doing is you’re controlling.

Mark MacDonald: And I hate to add the other C-word to consistency, but control is required for consistency because if not, everyone will do what’s right in their own eyes. And it’ll all stock like the, it’ll just be really bad by the, by the end of it all. So as a director of communications, even if you’re not a director of communications, you still should be directing. It is like a big orchestra leader. I’m just making sure that everything falls into the groove of the thread. And you want to make sure that your that, that as, as you’re rolling that out, you’re just listening for stories everywhere. And, and oftentimes the person in the congregation won’t necessarily use the thread, but if you ask those questions of, so, so we’re, our church is about this, have you found that in your life? They’ll oftentimes you know, marry their idea with the idea of that, the church thread.

Mark MacDonald: And then the rest is just history. I mean, it just all starts to work. And then you, you know, being known is actually that consistent message over and over again so that someone actually becomes known for something. But we also have to be for something because they overwhelming you know, perception of the church is what we’re against. You know, the disciples were all hanging out with Jesus and they looked at him and said so master how will people know that we’re your disciples? And he says, you know, in John 13:35, well, they’ll know you’re my disciples if you have love one towards another. Well, we’re awful at love because we’re not known for love. We’re known for what we’re against. So we have to become known for something and it’s not a whole bunch of things. It’s something. And, and that is what branding is all about. Unifying that concept.

Adam: Yeah. I’m going to give a shout out right here to Phil battle in his book, rethink communication, which was published by the center for church communications. And I know you had a hand in that. Phil battle says bill battle. He’s a great guy. I should have him on the podcast. Wait, I did a link to that in the show notes we’re talking about rethink communication [inaudible] and one of the things that stuck out for me and something that he really drives home is communication isn’t someone’s job. It’s everyone’s job. So knowing that communication is everyone’s job and everything communicates, how do we

Adam: Get everyone on the same page for our thread?

Mark MacDonald: It just happens, right?

Adam: Okay. Take two. The real answer is,

Mark MacDonald: Oh yes, that’s right. It never happens. That’s why I mean I’m executive director percent of the center for church communications. We have all of our different brands. You could say our different ministries and there’s a director over each one of those. As executive director, I have to make sure that I pull all of those directors into doing what’s right for our entire brand as a director of communications. And again, if you’re not called the director of communications, I the night the as director because you really do need to become that orchestra leader, that big director who, who very kindly shuffles people into a group so that you become known for it. Cause if not, they will, they will randomly go off and do their own thing because they believe it’s the right thing to do.

Mark MacDonald: But what you have to do, and again, you have to have like full leadership on board to all of this to be able to do it. You just have to make sure, okay. Well as part of our brand, we want to be known for this as our thread. So is there a way that we can shuffle you closer to it? In fact, the last third of the book kind of talks about the transactional approach of, of making sure that people kind of fall into line and we just want to bribe zone. That’s pretty much, it’s like you communicate the thread will give you more communication materials and it once, you know, it’ll take a little bit when it gets started, but then after a while they’ll, they’ll all jump on board. And if it makes sense and it does resonate and things become relevant it will, it’ll just engage a group of people and they’re, they’re gonna realize that it’s the right thing. If it’s all based on the audiences around your church. [inaudible]

Adam: Mark, there’s so much incredible information and obviously we don’t have time to dig into all of that in, in this podcast. But somebody wants to get to be known for something book and apply this to themselves. They can. And also, I know you work directly with churches to help them one on one, figure out what is their thread and how can they apply these ideas. So tell us a little bit how we can connect with you online.

Be known for something bookMark MacDonald: Well, fortunately, we’ve printed more than one book, so it is available. If you go to beknownbook.com or beknownforsomething.com and click on book, you’ll end up a way to buy. It is also a number two Amazon bestseller. So it’s on Amazon, but we’d like when you buy it through us rather than through Amazon, although we love Amazon. And then if you know, when you get to be known for something.com, you’re going to see we have a process that we go through and I would love, love, love to come and do the full process, which is about a six to nine months process with a church and we work from top to bottom to help develop the brand and then also make sure that it’s implemented through a full strategy. If you, if you’re a communications person in a church, I also come in and I encourage you, like encourage, encourage, encourage you so that I empower you and I also motivate the rest of the staff to understand the importance of your job. So that I, I really, I just want to put you up on a pedestal because it is an incredibly hard job to be able to crowd the cats that we have to corral in the church did. I said, dude, you nailed it.

Mark MacDonald: There are a lot of people wanting to do what’s right in their own eyes and oftentimes it just takes an outside consultant to come in to say, you guys have got to stop doing what’s right in your own eyes. And then just, I love doing my keynote presentation where I start showing the ludicrous amount of messages and fonts and colors and all of that stuff and I just, I kinda of nice.

Adam: I love it. Now, if somebody wants to connect with you directly, maybe they have a specific question for you. What’s your favorite social media channel? How can they track you down online?

Mark MacDonald: Uh it’s hard to have a favorite one. I mean I have more Twitter followers, than anything. I guess in all of my social media, I think I’m around 45,000 people. Like it’s just crazy. Pinterest.

Mark MacDonald: Pinterest. I just found out I have almost 7,000 unique views every month. It’s incredible. So Mark Mac 10, 23 is my handle. And if you go into any of them, I mean Facebook, there is a personal one that’s really close to not being able to have any more people. But there’s also a Mark McDonald author page that I would love for you to follow. There’s also be known for something page. I think there are six or 7,000 people on there and then there’s, I don’t know, 14 or 15,000 people on my Twitter account. So I would love for you all to follow me and just between you and me, if you want the even email me, I’ll just mark@beknownforsomething.com and I’d love to, I know I talked about the big process and I’ve also worked out, I kind of cool way is that two-day process and it’s a fast process where I come in and set up the idea of the thread, get the whole leadership of your church excited about trying to figure out what their thread is.

Mark MacDonald: And then the second day we actually we’ve surprisingly been able to get about 80, 85% of the time in one day figure out your threads. So all you do is just bring me in for a couple of days and then I can also throw in a mystery visit, same time where I can experience your church for the first time.

Adam: Love it. Mark, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. I love having you on the podcast and I know this is going to have to happen again cause there’s so much more to dig in.

Mark MacDonald: I have so enjoyed it. Adam, you are our rock star. I love it.

Adam: Thanks so much, Mark. Thank you.