Seth Muse

…has been in ministry for over 20 years, recently serving as Communications Director at a thriving church in North Dallas. He is also the host of The Seminary of Hard Knocks podcast, blogs at, and has his Masters of Arts in Media and Communications from Dallas Theological Seminary.

Seth specializes in helping church communicators use social media and content marketing to find common ground with their audience to empower them for spiritual growth.


Episode 1 Transcript:

Adam: Seth Muse, thank you so much for hanging out with me today.

Seth Muse: What’s up man?

Adam: Listen, I feel like I’ve been to your house so many times. It’s time for you to come visit my house. As far as podcasting goes,

Seth Muse: Man, that I’m in. I hope we have barbecue.

Adam: We have like Canadian grade barbecue, which is like microwave from the freezer in a box. So you should bring your own barbecue. I promise you that

Seth Muse: Sounds good.

Adam: No, it sounds disgusting. That’s why we come to the States and we always need his barbecue. Okay. Where’s the place? Was it hard eight, the place that you took me for a barbecue when I came to visit?

Seth Muse: Hard eight is where we went. There’s also 10 50. There is Lockhart Lockhart’s. I think Longhorn steakhouse, but steakhouse Rudy’s,

Adam: We only went to one barbecue place. I have a feeling I need to spend a lot more time in Texas.

Seth Muse: Oh man. And, and that’s not even scratching the surface. We are really known for TexMex. So like chewies and uncle Julio is, these are some like, yeah, they’re there. They’re widespread

Adam: Man, chains of textbooks that you need to try for sure. Well, anyway, here’s the podcast Hungary right now. Right? And the point is that if you’re looking for a vacation where you go to eat, you don’t come to Canada. Okay? That’s just, we’ll we’re all clear about that. We’re all right with that. But dude, it was so great to get to hang out with you and, and at heart a barbecue in Texas and you know, we chat about all kinds of things all the time. And you know, one of the things I love about the podcast is that I get to meet people that I otherwise wouldn’t have gotten to meet. And I think that’s how you and I met is doing your podcast. I was one of the first guests on your podcast. Maybe the first, well, you know what, you are the first guest on my podcast.

Adam: It’s a fair trade. Okay. It’s a fair trade. And I’m excited that you’re here and I’m excited for the topic that we’re going to talk about and we’re going to talk about communication shift that senior leaders may not be ready for. So listeners, if you are in a church communications position, then you’re going to want to pass on the link to this, to your senior leader. You might want to not sit down with them and do it at the same time, cause you might be really tempted to say, told you so. But what we want to do in this conversation is create ways that you can not only identify shifts that your senior leaders might not be ready for, but you also might be able to learn ways to articulate those things to them. And if you are a senior leader or you’re an army of one, first off, please understand, we pray for you, we love you. And also we’re here to help. So this is not to bash, this is really to help you reach your community and build trust in your community. Right? So

Seth Muse: That’s, that’s an often the misunderstanding between I think senior leadership and communications is that they both really do want the same thing. They both really do want to see people come to know Jesus, grow in their faith, connect with the community. We want those same things. So it’s all from like a point of view of like, Hey, we really want to do these things together, but we both have different priorities, different views of the world, different kind of looking at ways of looking at it. And it’s like I try to, how can we reconcile those things in our, in our staff so that we can have a unified vision for how we’re doing the thing that we both want to do and that that’s important that we come at it too from a place of humility and not just like come on dummies, you know, and like, and that’s for senior pastor looking at the communicator going, come on dummy. You don’t, you know, this is important and the community are going to come on dummy. You don’t, you know, that’s not good for anybody, you know, to, to look at it from either direction that way.

Adam: So Seth, this is a blog post on your blog, and so just set us up. But what was the, the thing that triggered this conversation for you? What created the need to create this blog post for you? Well, I mean I just, I’ve just seen it

Seth Muse: A lot. These conversations are happening in like communication, Facebook groups and on Instagram. And I’m just seeing a lot of the same conversation happen over and over again. And, and for me, you know, just the way I’m wired, I like to step back and go, what is really going on here in the big picture? What is, what are we really struggling with? And as I start to, you know, figure out like, okay, what would, what would I struggle with? What would you know, you know, other communicators I’m friends with, I talked to what did they struggle with? And it seemed to be like there’s this, this overarching theme that like when you go to the conferences, do you go to that church conference, you go to engage conference or whatever, and you hear all this great stuff as a communicator and then they’d come back and you go, we’re not gonna be able to do any of that because there are others in leadership that don’t know or don’t get or don’t believe or a dead.

Seth Muse: And here what we heard and what we believe or I think, you know, it’s like a completely different mindset that’s forming by going to these conferences and hearing professionals and hearing people that are having success and going, man, we could do that. We could totally do that. And then you go back and there’s somebody there, whether it’s a senior leader or somebody else and you feel like you’re being blocked. And so, you know, it’s really easy to go, man, senior leaders, what’s wrong with those guys? Let’s start with those people. You know? But ultimately the issue is, is that I think there is a com conversation that needs to happen because as communication professionals learn and grow in this field of how this could work for our church and, and really improve what we do as a church to meet those same goals that senior leader wants.

Seth Muse: The senior leader is not hearing that. They’re not getting that and they’re not. And if they are, it’s like, it’s so not what they’re really called to, you know like they’re, they’re not called to optimizing a website. They’re called to reaching people and talking to people, each in the Bible and, and ministering to people and communication professionals really want to have them be able to do that. But there’s a, you know, part of what we do that is that. And I think we’re not talking about that and seeing each other as partners in that. It’s a, it’s just a real mess. You know, it’s like, it’s a real mess right now. Because as communication professionals get better and try to take off in one direction, I think to senior leaders, it feels like someone running away with their church or feels like doing something that’s not authorized or it feels like someone is taking control or doing or putting a lot of stock and money and time and effort and resources, manpower into something that for me, I don’t ever use it.

Seth Muse: You know, it doesn’t matter. You know, things like that. There’s just not a conversation. And then what that feels like is that senior leaders are just blocking everything and they don’t care. And that’s not true. So there’s just no conversation really happening between your communication marketing professional in your church that can truly help your church. And the senior leader whose main concern is vision, values ministry, and could care less about Instagram. You know, they don’t post on it. They don’t like it. In fact, all the stuff that’s happened in the news, they’re scared of it. And so that conversation is, I just noticed like I’m hearing, cause I’m in both of these worlds, I’m hearing both sides of this conversation and going, man, you, it’d be really great if we just talk to each other about this. Right. You know, it’s like communication one Oh one.

Seth Muse: Like what’s the first step to really reconciling any kind of issues or problems or whatever it’s you talk, talk about it with the people you need to talk about it with. So that’s kinda what sparked the blog is like, you know, I just want to get a conversation started that something is happening. I see a pattern and I lived through the first pattern I mentioned in the blog, but then it’s looking like the same thing and I don’t want that to happen again. Yeah. So tell us about that first pattern. Well, the first pattern was I’m, I’m an older gentleman. I am, I’m 40. And so when I first started youth ministry, I also did worship ministry. I was 20 years old. That was in the year 2000 in the year 2000. One of the biggest issues facing the church was worship music.

Seth Muse: And we, we refer to that in, in the, in the ministry world as the worship Wars, right? When we had literal Wars, divisions, churches, splitting churches, getting started. And the reason was that we wanted to have some cool music in our church and we don’t want to play old Oregon in hymns is boring. And you know, that was the whole thing. And like churches split over this thing. And I was watching, I was part of it. I was on the, you know, I was a youth pastor, so obviously I was, yeah, let’s bring in drums. Let’s punk rock this place up. So I look at churches now and go, man, I think I feel like my side one. But did anybody really win? Right? That, you know, nobody really won that. That was a horrifying time. We were listening to, you know, it was before Chris Tomlin knew that fourth chord.

Seth Muse: It was before, you know, he knew, you know, it was like delirious was writing a bunch of songs. Passion was still a huge deal for like creating music. And, and so all these songs are coming out and people were wanting to play ’em and you know, their churches were just not having it. So I, I D I established like there’s this pattern I saw of where the culture of the, of the, of the world and really in the church, the culture of the church shifted [inaudible] and the [inaudible] and it went towards like, we want some relevant music. Cause that was the ultimate question, right? Like the church had a PR problem and the PR problem was, why aren’t you relevant? Why aren’t you cool? Why are you so boring? And so many churches thought sought to answer that question. And so the answer to the question with like, cool music, let’s even play radio songs, you know, stuff like that and whatever you feel about that, no matter.

Seth Muse: But they were trying to bring in relevant sounding stuff to the church. You know, pastors would bring, you know, tanks out on the stage or you know, they, you know, do crazy stuff like that. They, that’s when the era of the massive giveaway started, you know, like, come to come to youth group when a car, you know, ridiculous stuff like that started taking place, which is way overkill. Right? But the point is, is that the music was really the core issue for a lot of that and churches that responded in created this, what we can now call it an attractional model really hinged on what kind of music you play because that’s a huge part of the surface. So anyway, it’s split. Churches, the culture shifted. Our people responded favorably, mostly. Many of them did. And the culture shifted.

Seth Muse: They went with it and the church resisted. So basically you have people trying to go over here and the church trying to hold him back and eventually it splits and there’s a tear. And that’s what we refer to as the worship Wars. That time period when all that’s going on. Well, today, I see a similar thing happening and it’s in our space where, and it has to do with a lot of the online church, online communities, online, you know, social media. Facebook groups and you know, is this real relationship, does that count as attendance? All these questions that are coming up now, I see in a similar pattern, man, I’ve seen a very similar pattern. It’s culture shifts. People respond favorably.

Adam: And here’s the church trying to resist again. So let’s dig into a couple of those because you know, our online relationships, real relationships, you know, this is definitely a shift. And I think probably I think we’re past kind of the stigma of like online dating, right? Like I think that’s pretty well become a norm.

Seth Muse: I read it, the last stat I read on that was almost 40% of today’s marriages start online,

Adam: Right? In some form or fashion. Right. But give us like 10 years ago and it was like you met them where and all I think is the brother from Napoleon dynamite. But that’s a different story. Different podcasts. Right.

Seth Muse: Which is a funny thing, but at the time, even when that movie came out, there’s a  reason that’s in that movie.

Adam: Yeah, it seems so, it seems so fringe at the time, right? Yeah.

Seth Muse: At the time we were like, wow, and it’s 56K modem. He has a chance to meet somebody and talk to them and yup, he did.

Adam: Yeah. So that is an interesting question. Our online relationships and, I think the challenge is how you phrase the question, right? So if you say our online relationships the same as real-life relationships and I would suggest they’re not, but I think if you say our online relationships as valuable or as or equal to or as beneficial as in rife real-life relationships, then I would say there’s probably an argument for that. Like I value our friendship and I know if I’m going through something or if I have a question, I can always connect with you. And that just, we’re just not physically next to each other to do that in real life all the time.

Seth Muse: Which you know, is not really a major factor at most intimacy levels of your relationship. I mean you can do, you need a hug, you know, it’s like you don’t need a hug for everything, you know. So, but one thing I do want to say as we get into this too, are they real relationships as first we need to understand that. What I’m not saying is that just because the culture shifts that we should always embrace it. You know, there are lots of things that the culture embraces that we should not embrace. Right? So I think that we need to make sure we say that. However, what we’re talking about is a function. Like how do people interact, how do people deal with each other and how to relationships form. I think what we do as ministers and, and I think that’s what we are communication people and pastors like we’re ministers.

Seth Muse: You can’t go and preach that everybody is responsible for evangelism and not let them do it in professional life too. Just because they’re a communicator. You can’t say it’s not ministry and then say it’s meant you’re a minister, but what you do is not ministry. That’s garbage. So when they go into this world, we have to understand that when we have the opportunity to have a relationship with people that we’re not trying to say that it replaces any kind of face to face. We’re not trying to say that it is better than or worse than we have to start getting to where we say it is. Part of it is part of it. And that’s all I’m really advocating for is that in an online digital space is that pastors start to accept the fact that their culture accepts the fact that digital relationships are part of relationships.

Adam: Yeah. So I’ll give you an example then. Just in a practical sense. Before we hopped on, my wife sent me a text message and it’s not that I have a digital relationship with my wife and I have a real-life relationship with my wife. She’s my wife. And we happened to interact in real life and we also interact digitally.

Seth Muse: Yeah, absolutely. And, and that’s, and that’s kind of, that’s what most of us do. But whenever we’re asked the question, is this legitimate? Does this count? You know, the same people who would say, yeah, that’s the situation. Exactly what you described is true for me, but not for the church. Right. It was like, why not? You know, like, what, what’s different? You know, it’s like, I know there are some differences, but like why discount the whole part of the digital space for the sake of saying that real life, you know, face to face is you can’t, you can’t apply that logic to every other place of your life anyway. Right. You’re already living in a way that doesn’t reflect that. We’ve already accepted some of these norms, like texting and FaceTiming and even what we’re doing now, video chat over a computer, over wifi. It is, it’s a friendship. It’s, it’s real. I mean, the first time I ever met Kenny Jang, I’d known him for a year. He hugged me. I mean, like, that’s, that’s real stuff, man. You know, it’s not, I don’t hug strangers. I don’t like that. If you hug strangers, stop doing it, you’re free.

Seth Muse: But anyway, that’s, that’s kinda where we’re at. I think it’s, it’s that, you know, and I give this example, you give you an example for attendance. This is where we see this play out a lot. Sure. Mmm. Four weekends in a month. Let’s just say that you have a person who the first weekend attends church. The second weekend they stay home, but they watch online.  The third weekend, they don’t watch online, but they go to homegroup that night on Sunday night. Then the fourth weekend they come to church again. How many times did they attend church this month? Yeah, that’s an important question. I mean, just give, give listeners a second. How many times did they attend? How you answered that question really makes a difference because how it a church leader, a pastor, or even some communications people, w we may, they came two times, but you asked that person how many times they attended, right?

Seth Muse: They’re going to probably say three or four because it counts for them, but it doesn’t count for us. And so when they come to church and realize that all this stuff that they’ve done has not been recognized, appreciated, they feel invalidated. Like that doesn’t really matter. So why would I do that? Why, why when I’m on vacation, would I stop and watch church if my pastor doesn’t count it? I mean, that’s not a good reason to go to church, but that definitely is a deterrent. You know, if your pastor gets on stage and goes, Hey, don’t just watch online. You need to be here, you need to be here. Well, the people have kind of moved on from physical, a presence being what counts as attendance. And I would say that in the culture today, what counts as attendance is attention. They give you their attention.

Seth Muse: Then they have given you their attendance. I don’t know how many businesses have online webinars and seminars and conferences they go to and they count that I went to a conference. Right. You know, they meet with their grandkids on FaceTime, on Skype or zoom or whatever, and they got to see their grandkids and met with their grandkids tonight. It’s just in our vernacular how we talk about this and it makes so much sense to the people who are doing this. But in the church world we’ve kind of said, no, no, no, that doesn’t count. Right. Why?

Adam: Yeah, that’s a, it’s a really interesting question. And I, I think what, what we need to shift away from is tracking intended attendance as being the most important metric that we have. So, and somebody just turned me off right there. Somebody just unsubscribed to our podcasts. But that’s all right. It’s different, it’s a different story, but is, okay, so let’s, let’s, let’s not think of it in like a, don’t worry about church attendance mode, right? That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is, imagine you had a thousand people who came to your church every single Sunday, but when you go to do a community event, nobody shows up. And volunteers, like if attendance is your most important metric, then apparently you’re doing all right. But nobody’s interested in impacting your community. Nobody’s interested in going out and introducing people to Jesus. No one’s interested in going on a mission trip. No one’s interested in giving. So we have to shift the perspective that attendance is the most important metric.

Adam: And I think it’s Clay Scroggins, And I could be wrong maybe if somebody else, but somebody said it’s unfair to say that watching online doesn’t count, but giving online matters that was click, it was a click conference. So it’s, it’s interesting that this needs to happen.

Seth Muse: Yeah. And, and again, you know, it’s not an either-or situation, right? It is a pastors. Please incorporate what’s happening online, into your thought process and strategy of ministry at your church. Right. Because the less you do that, the more you seem out of touch with what’s happening in the culture. And when you stand on that stage and you go, here’s how to navigate life, the impression they might get is, well, you don’t really take part in where we take part of life. You know, a lot of our life is lived out online and, and we can either sit back and go and let’s debate whether or not that should be, you know, they shouldn’t do that or that’s dangerous. And sure there are some dangerous warn people of that stuff, fine. But while we debate those things, the culture is moving on. And really what we need to decide is how are we going to redeem that space?

Seth Muse: How are we going to read it? That’s our business, right? We redeem things, right? Jesus redeemed. But we are in the business of reconciliation. That’s our ministry in first grade, right? It’s that our ministry of reconciliation, bringing people back into the fold, backed into a relationship with Christ. And where do people hang out? 24 seven it’s online. We’re called to go to them, right? And now I’m confused why that’s not a mission field, because that’s where they are. And call us the bow, not to call them to us, but to go to them. Then why don’t we consider that a place to go?

Adam: It’s a really interesting shift. Why don’t we?

Seth Muse: I want an answer from you, Adam. Right now

Adam: I don’t have an answer. And that’s, that’s my challenge is that if somebody asks me about Facebook strategy or social media strategy, I’m pretty confident that I can ask them a couple more questions and come up with an answer. What I don’t, what I don’t have an answer from and what I can’t wrap my brain around is why somebody is not willing to embrace the opportunity to go where people are, which is online. Right?

Seth Muse: I have theories about that, but it will definitely polarize the crowd. You know, it’s, it’s, I feel personally like that in many churches, our mission, vision, and values are designed to be outwardly focused, but yet our actual practice and implementation of those things is very inwardly focused. It is easier to reach people that are already reached than it is to reach those that are not, it is easier to focus on discipleship instead of evangelism. It is easier to grow someone in their faith and focus on that than it is to get someone who does not think that you have anything to offer them to listen to you. And I think honestly that many of us have gotten in a situation where because attendance is the major metric, it’s easier to bolster attendance with people who are already into what you’re selling, right?

Seth Muse: I mean that’s marketing one-on-one. Find your ideal customer. Right? And this is where I think with communications we might need to rethink some of our strategies. We’re constantly going out to find people who are likely to want to see what we’re putting out. Maybe our strategy needs to inline more with a pastor strategy and start putting out our Facebook ads that target only people that are atheist or you know, things like that, like targeting to actually make some kind of real difference. And that may be why we struggle to get senior leaders to understand that what we do as administrators. Because honestly, a lot of it, it turns out to not be, it’s discipleship. It’s, it’s good things, but it’s not really focused towards reaching new people. Yeah. Because to reach new people, we have to do things that are weird in this space.

Seth Muse: You know, you have to make blogs about parks that you should visit. You know, you’d have to make a checklist that help people when they move. Right. You know, you have to offer services that, you know, may not happen between eight 30 and five on a weekday, you know, that you have to get out and help them cut down a tree that fell on their house. You know, you have to offer things like that and it has to be front and center and it’s tough to do that. And so when we’re able to create content or programs or ministries that really address what people are really wanting that don’t believe, then it changes all of our strategies. And it gets really messy really fast. And I think that we struggle with that and I struggle with that.

Adam: Yeah. No, I hear you. And to me, it’s interesting that specifically, you titled your blog post about communication shifts that senior leaders might not be in love with or senior leaders might not be ready for. And it’s interesting to me, I would love to see a lot more senior leaders getting input from other generations and, and, and that’s not just younger, right? So I believe that everybody should have a mentor that’s older than them and everybody should have a mentor that’s younger than them. And I think there’s, there’s value there. And it’s not just let’s get together a group of teenagers to decide how we’re going to decorate the youth room. Like I think we really have to be having real-life conversations. And again, that comes back to where we started about how do we create these conversations. So what practical ways do you see to create conversations?

Seth Muse: Well, I think we have to bring senior leaders and communicators into the room to make real decisions about what we’re doing. Not that we need communication leaders making all those decisions, cause most of us don’t want to do that. But we have insights. And help. And I think senior leaders need to pay attention to data instead of how they feel or stories they heard recently and really pay attention to that kind of thing. You know, and, and really champion what communicators can bring to the table there because it is one of the few things I think they can honestly help you really grow a ministry of people who are coming to know Christ because it’s so noisy and you need to cut through it and it’s really hard to do. But I think at first that we just really have to accept that our culture is digitally mined.

Seth Muse: And if that’s not your space, I know that can be really scary, but I think, you know, warn people about things that are out there, sure. But create a strategy for what we are in, not for what we wish we were in. And I think that’s a huge mind shift. That’s way easier said than done. And that goes for all of us. I think we also have to incorporate digital spaces into our ministry mindset. Like we said earlier, I think that’s a huge step. We have to say, that’s a ministry. What are we doing there to reach people instead of how are we getting in front of more people? Or how are we reaching 10,000 Mark for Instagram so we can have a swipe up link deal in stories? We don’t, who cares about that? If that helps you reach more people, great. But if it doesn’t, you’re just, who cares.

Seth Muse: The other thing I think is that, and this is a call for senior leaders honestly because the average age of most senior pastors is 54, 52 54, somewhere in there. And I know that when you start talking about this sort of thing if your eyes don’t cross, most of us, most of you don’t really care. It’s not part of what you’ve done for so long and you haven’t needed it before. So why need it now? But honestly, you need it now. And it’s that, I know that’s scary. It’s like you have to learn a new thing. But the thing is you don’t have to learn it. You just have to have to get with people around you that do know it and let them guide you through it. And I think this is where we have to lead from a place of humility as a senior leader and say that this twenty-something that I’ve hired just to fart around on social media as far as I thought, now they’re a big part of the strategy of our church.

Seth Muse: So if they say the best way to reach new people is put out this crazy looking meme on Instagram, I need to trust them with that a little bit and I need to let them do that. That doesn’t look perfect like I want it to. It doesn’t represent us well, but it works. And that’s what we’re really after trying to do stuff that gets people engaged. I think no matter how old you are, I think you can really engage in this stuff. By allowing the people that God has put around you to do what God has gifted them best to do. I like to say this all the time with leadership. It’s one of my things with leading other teams is that leadership doesn’t mean you make all the decisions. It means you make sure all the decisions are made. And that has a lot to do with being able to delegate and organize the best people in the best slots.

Seth Muse: Because sometimes I think we think because we’re the senior leader because we’re the pastor because we’re over this department that I have to make all these decisions and if I didn’t put my stamp on it, it’s not okay. And that, that’s not always true. In fact, very true. I think 80 standards would echo that. Which is probably where I got that. But the point is, is that with senior leaders, I think the conversation has to be initiated by you because communication leaders are middle management. And for us to go to you and say, I think we could be doing a lot of things better is really hard for us to say without sounding like we’re criticizing you. And that’s not what we’re trying to do. Again, bring it all the way back. We care about the same thing you do. Right. Just as much as you do, we just get there a different way and want to be part of it in a different way. And I think when you have both of those, I guess sides of the coin really, really going, you get a much stronger ministry that does more actual good than you would if we’re just doing one thing and doing that well. You know, I think you’ve got people around you for a purpose, so you use them.

Adam: Yeah. And one thing I want to just tag in right there is you know, none of us are getting younger so it seems like that, right? As we get older or previous generations, and I’m not blaming the current pre, the current older generation than us. I’m saying historically speaking, this has seemed to be true, is that we latch onto what works and we stick with it as we get older. And my question for you is how do we, in today’s day in, in where we are today, continue to remain flexible as we get older, you know, 10 years from now, how do we remember this conversation and remember what it was like to be in our shoes at our point in time and offer that flexibility to younger leaders underneath us.

Seth Muse: Right? For, from my experience, and this has a lot to do with just how people are individually wired for what your thing is. From my experience, I love to learn new things. Mmm. For me to learn something new and be able to do something new is fun, but not everybody’s like that. I think you have to challenge yourself and set it up so that you’re challenged. But I think also the ultimate issue is always going to be ego. It is always going to be humility. Can you humble and recognize your limitations and allow someone else to fill in those gaps for you? If you can’t do that, your leadership is always going to be limited always. Because we, I mean, look at any powerful person that is successful, that is doing big things. None of them got where they are by themselves. None of them.

Seth Muse: They all have teams. They all have people that help them. They have people that hand them checks out of nowhere for thousands of dollars. You know, that just said, I wanted to bless you. I would love for anybody to do that. So my, you know, but you know what I’m saying? It’s like they always had people that were, you know there that helped them do things because everyone has deficiencies. And when we bring people in that have strengths where we don’t, and then we trust and listen to them, we make our organizations better. We make our impacts stronger, we just do better. And I think the ultimate issue with us is that as we get older, we all have this sense that because of the experience of a mass, because of the things that I’ve learned because of the stuff I’ve done, I can point back to it and that should give me the credit that I need to do something new and it doesn’t.

Seth Muse: Right. It just doesn’t always do that. And especially with a generation coming up, you remember what you were like when you were 19 years old. I mean we think we know quite a bit more than we do, but there are things that we knew at 19 that our parents did not know. Right? And, and we had to, we always feel like we had to, you know, fight for that or argue about that or whatever. When you find a senior leader that listens to you, if you’re 1920 year range and you find a senior leader that values your opinion and listens, I don’t always agree with you. I don’t always go with it. But listen, stay with them as long as you can and learn from them because they’ve mastered something that so many leaders don’t. Yeah, it is. It is. It is to put aside ego and listen to those that are younger that are more experienced because they might have something to offer.

Adam: So Seth, I know that there are leaders listening right now who think to themselves, yes, I’m, I’m ready for this shift and I hear what you’re saying and I agree with you, but we don’t necessarily have the people or the budget or the resources to create our own communications team at the moment. We have something and we’d like to do what we have with that something. And I’m excited about a new project that you have coming up and I would love for you to tell us a little bit about that. Well, you can always

Seth Muse: Try to get a bunch of volunteers and volunteers are awesome. I love volunteers and you know, people that donate their time and give that are great. You could go hire out contract people con and, and do that. That’s a route. You could find donors and backers to supply some sort of salary. But what we’ve is that and why we created church comm team is because there are so many churches that can’t afford full-time employees, part-time employees. And even if they do, you know, they’ll get an Impala employee. But again, like we just said, they have weaknesses, they have gaps and you can’t afford to buy or buy, you can’t afford to hire to fill in those gaps. Right? So we started church comm team to bring on leadership to your communications efforts at your church. We do it remotely.

Seth Muse: We have a team and this team is designed to come in and basically develop all those strategies and everything like we’ve been talking about to maximize the power of the impact that your church can have in your community. Because we believe communications is super important, but it’s also very overwhelming and you need a lot of people to really do it well. And so what you could do is hire our firm, our team, and we’ll come in and we’ll assess things. It will set up a team, you’ll get great designers, you get great web support, you get great strategy sessions. We meet with you every week via zoom or Skype or whatever. And we just kind of customize what you need. There are a couple of different packages that we can offer at different pay rates and all of them are a fraction of the cost you would pay for staff.

Seth Muse: And then for that price, you get a whole team, not just one staff member. So is where you can find us and set up a consultation. We’ll talk with you through your, your needs. And it’s, man, it’s something I’m super excited about doing. We’re helping churches to cut through the noise and on a good, on a, on a low budget, you know, and cause even if you have 400 people in your church, a hundred people in your church, there’s some, there’s a need for this too, to function where your people are like we’ve said earlier, that’s where they are to reach out to them. So we have some packages that are really great to come in and just do things for you and run it. We also can come in and support if you have one staff member that’s on comms team and just has all these gaps, needs help that we’d come in and support that and fill in those gaps for them and then kind of teamwork with them to create a strategy for you. They become the point person for us at your church. So pretty flexible, pretty great. And I really love doing it. It’s a new service. So we’re looking for people that we can help. So if that’s, you hit us

Adam: And I loved the, I loved the whole concept because even if you are a communications person, instead of having to learn how your website software works and, and strategize and how each social media channel works and how to keep up with that and how do you do your podcast and why aren’t we doing YouTube yet? And all these things put together and graphic design and video editing and audio and who knows what else and whatever might come, right. That’s the thing is you can really say these are the pieces that I love doing, that I’m really good at. The pieces that matter and I know will resonate in our community and we need support on the other pieces where I don’t have time to learn or I’m not a specialist or, you know, frankly, my time’s better spent elsewhere. So I just love the whole concept. Again. Give us that domain

Seth Muse: Again,

Adam: And Seth, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. If somebody wants to learn more about you and what you do, they want to connect with Seth Muse directly. How can they do that?

Seminary of Hard Knocks PodcastSeth Muse: Well go to You can find the seminary of hard knocks podcasts. There are links to that so you can subscribe and, and get that podcast. We do that weekly Megan Ranson and I host that. And it’s really, really fun. So go check that out. And then I blog there as well. I have one-on-one coaching, all kinds of other things that are offered through that site, some snarky communications based tee shirts and you know, fun things like that. So anyway is the best place to go find all that or go check me out on Instagram.

Adam: Sure. Is Instagram your favorite social media channel?

Seth Muse: It is right now. I actually opened up ticktock today and it looks amazing and I can’t flipping work it,

Adam: But you’re also now a lot of your content showing up on YouTube, so, so somebody goes to Seth they can track you down, they could find your blog, they could find your podcasts, they can find a link to YouTube, they can find you on Instagram and they can find out if by the time this airs you’re still on. Ticktock

Seth Muse: Yup. And I haven’t linked to that yet because I haven’t done anything yet. But, but again, as I said, I like to learn and this is a big thing right now. So I’m going to look at it, see what it is. It’s pretty entertaining to watch. I just don’t know how to make anything yet. So I’m like, I opened it up today. I worked, I looked at it for like 30 minutes and it was like, yeah, I’m done with this for now. That’s one of the things that I would take it into depth to delegate out. Like, Hey, you’d be the tick dark person. I’ll be on camera. Tell me what to do. But you know, we all face those kinds of challenges

Adam: For sure. So thank you so much for hanging out and I really hope that what we talked about today starts some conversations.

Seth Muse: Me too. And if you want to talk about that with me more, you can contact me through the website. You can gripe at me. Tell me how I’m wrong. That’s cool. Sounds good. Thanks. Thank you.